Egypt: TV Program On Religion & ID Cards (Part-4)

This is the last segment of the TV program on Dream-2 Channel regarding the issue of religious classification on Egypt's ID Cards. In this segment, the broadcaster talks with a caller who presented his case of being unable to obtain an ID Card unless he lies about his religion, which he could not do because it would have been immoral and illegal to make false statements on official documents. Ironically, this is what the government is asking the Baha'is in Egypt to do, i.e. deny their religion and falsify documents in order to be able to obtain ID Cards. Since the Baha'is will not lie, they are left without Identification Documents. One can easily imagine what it means to try to live in Egypt--as a citizen--without an ID Card!



Here is the translated transcript.

Broadcaster: go ahead Ustadh Dhiya' [a caller]....

Ustadh Dhiya': Good Evening!

Broadcaster: Good Evening Sir!

Ustadh Dhiya': I thank you for bringing up a topic such as this on your program. I am a Baha'i. Al-Baha'iyyah initially....

Ustadh Hamdi: his problem...[simultaneous conversation]....

Dr. Mona: sorry what was that?

Ustadh Hamdi: his problem is at your end...[Laughs]....

Ustadh Dhiya': ...the Baha'is never before wanted the section for religion to be removed from the ID [card], which is what I just heard mentioned on the program, that this subject was created for the benefits of the Baha'is. The Baha'is are not at all asking that the section for religion be omitted....

Broadcaster: no, when it was said that this would serve the Baha'is, it was meant that you will no longer have a problem....

Dr. Mona: no, a problem will still exist. It should still be in the database; that is why we can omit it on the card, this plastic card; there is a difference. However, they still should be allowed to put "other" in the database. [unclear simultaneous talking].

Ustadh Dhiya': in the government's computer [database], my religion is classified as "other". However, when I tried to obtain an ID Card, they refused to grant me one, and I was told to write "Muslim". [simultaneous talking]. In this way, I am being forced to either write "Muslim" in order to get the ID Card or not get the ID at all. I--till this day--am 25 years old and do not have a National ID Card. [simultaneous talking]....

Broadcaster: the problem of the Baha'is is a complicated one; I know that. A large part of the problem is that it appeared suddenly on the scene. At least for us in the media, we need to deal with it gradually; it appeared suddenly. And when other problems occur at the same time, like the issue of religion, I believe, that the situation becomes more complicated...Dr. Mona Zulfuqar!

Dr. Mona Zulfuqar: removing the section for religion from the ID card does not affect the religious identity or religious pride. It does not require that the religion be removed from the database. On the contrary, if we want to resolve the problems of all citizens, we should still, once again, allow them to put "other" in the space. This is so [that] the problem gets resolved. This is a proof that the issue is greater than being a mere complaint by the Baha'is or a complaint from other religious minorities. However, we are in dire need for a suggestion [an option] that has a powerful symbolic influence, so this problem can surface [get resolved]--the problem of discrimination on the basis of religion. This idea [discrimination] conflicts with the constitution which contains the text about preserving freedom of thought, freedom of belief and freedom of religious practices. Also, there is a problem with the idea of equal opportunities for all citizens that has a flaw [when] relating to all citizens, but there is also a particular flaw based on religion. This problem deserves attention and deserves that we think about it in terms of initiatives. The initiatives submitted by the National Council for Human Rights for discussion, are not only initiatives about removing the religious classification from the ID card. They also are about thinking within a general framework to support the idea of [equal] citizenship, to support that "religion is God's and the country is for all", to support the idea of justice and equal opportunity and equality before the law as a basis of interaction between the country and all its citizens.